Meryl's Notes Blog

58 comments

• Posted by: Hank on October 7th, 2003, 4:31 PM

  I had a similar problem with earlier versions (4&5). After days of messing around with Dell, Microsoft, and McAfee tech support (and an equal number of days having my primary e-mail account hosed), I was able to get McAfee to send me detailed instructions (4-5 pages each) for manually removing BOTH versions. The process was tedious and long - but it did fully remove both versions and magically, my e-mail worked again. I then installed Norton Anti-virus and have had no problems.

  FYI - The removal process involved fairly complex registry hacking (although the instructions were very clear), removal of numerous files, and other cleanup activities. It’s not really hard, but not for the faint of heart. Like Meryl did, BACK UP YOUR REGISTRY BEFORE STARTING THIS!!!

• Posted by: Jane on October 8th, 2003, 1:58 PM

  Just a note about the hard of hearing part..
  I also am HOH and use the Sprint Relay extensively and they have the ability to save the converstations let alone print them out. I am not sure its available all over the US but you can check it out at http://www.sprintbiz.com/government/relay/internet.html

  Then go to internet relay and call anyone..no LD charges or nothing. I use it at work also.
  There is also several others too, but my experience with this relay has been the best.
  Hope that helps.
  Lastly get NORTON!! =)

• Posted by: Rogi (V.4.0) on October 8th, 2003, 1:58 PM

  McAfee Nightmare

  Meryl is having a hard time with McAfee, and if she is having a hard time, I dread to think how the rest of us would manage as she surely

• Posted by: Ishmael on October 8th, 2003, 4:05 PM

  My solution to the Norton Upgrade mess is simply to uninstall the program, then use a utility called “RegCleaner,” which is Freeware and you can find on the web. The author comes from Finland. Anyway, once in that utility, do a Clean it all option. and then see if any comments related to Norton or Symantec are remaining on the main page. Remove those. This should resolve Norton’s Upgrade problem. As with all utility work, backup the Registry before doing anything. The utility, by the way has a Restore utility!!

• Posted by: Rosa Haverland on October 8th, 2003, 4:07 PM

  Just read about your war with McAfee—after purchasing their product, installing, etc—had my first virus—had to wipe harddrive
  and reinstall everything, where upon I switched to Norton and have never,never had any problems. McAfee is no longer a viable component in my
  opinion..

• Posted by: Charles on October 8th, 2003, 4:12 PM

  Hi.Ref your problems with McAfee, remember they were the ones who offered to put a “backdoor” in their product for the FBI. I NEVER use it. Now why not use Resplendent Registrar for Windows XP/2000/NT/ME/9x ? Do a search and delete every reference to McAfee. And associated McAfee programs. Drop to X:\ program files and look for any residue, McAfee folders, etc.Reboot and re-install, tho I never would. If you can re-install or have the install programs. I’ve had to do that with other programs. Norton / Symantec is nasty, too.

  Norton Utilities put about 360 entries into the registry, IIRC.

  PS, when hitting search registry with that program.Type McAfee in top bar and tho it has something else in the bottom bar-address type the word registry. Highlight the right pane right click and the option to delete it there. Choose all.

• Posted by: Greg on October 8th, 2003, 4:53 PM

  Oh my gosh! I can’t BELIEVE it! I just went through the same EXACT thing you did, with Norton Internet Security/AntiVirus 2004.
  I owned the 2003 product which worked beautiful, and when it came time to renew the subscription, I received the cd. It did tell me to uninstall 2003, which I did. After installing 2004, I couldn’t get on the internet without disabling it, no matter what I tried. No live chat help would help me there! $29.95 per incident, or $2.95 a minute to fix the problem,
  neither of which I could afford, so I’ve been 2 days without internet access. All unsuccessful attempts to uninstall 2004 now too. Still in the
  add/remove menu, but it won’t allow me to log in as administrator to make any changes. the login box is greyed out!
  Needless to say, attempting to fix this myself has resulted in at first being able to see the other computers on the network but not being able to get out to the internet, then having to do XP Pro re-install/repair 3 times! Bottom line, I’m finally back on-line, the Norton stuff is still all over my hard drive and registry and not working, I have no protection at all, and I’m out the $ to purchase the upgrade. No help in their knowledge base either for these particular problems. I was going to switch
  to McAfee, but I just read your column in Lockergnome, and now I don’t know what to do!
  Recommendations?

• Posted by: Joe Siegler on October 8th, 2003, 5:04 PM

  Just ran across your “remove Virusscan 7″ saga. I had that kind of problem once before, and McAfee sent me this link. Don’t know if it’s helpful to you at all. Thought I’d send it along.

  http://ts.mcafeehelp.com/faq3.asp?docid=68717

• Posted by: Ben on October 8th, 2003, 5:14 PM

  I feel your McAfee pain. I spent an entire day removing McAfee 7 from my Dad’s computer. Luckily, I had some excellent and inexpensive help… a report from InCtrl 5 (NJ Rubenking’s PC Mag utility) and Regedit Plus (a registry editor from the same source). I mention these utilities because you have worked so hard to recommend high quality and low cost software for your readers. You deserve some tlc in return!

  After cleaning and rebuilding his registry I helped him download and install Grisoft AVG:

  http://www.grisoft.com/us/us_dwnl_free.php

  It has provided excellent protection for our family’s needs, without all the bloatware. (And expense!) I realize that it might not be adequate for a professional, but it might be less stressful!

  A loyal reader, Ben

• Posted by: Jim on October 8th, 2003, 5:34 PM

  changing anti-virus software may make you feel good for a while, but you might find out that Norton is just as dumb when it comes to the renewal process. At least, that was my experience last year. Seems funny, doesn’t it? This renewal thing is a cash cow for these folks. Who is minding the store?.

• Posted by: Mary D. on October 8th, 2003, 6:06 PM

  I read your article about McAfee and the problems you had updating their software. I had exactly the same type of problem, only it was to update to 7.0. I had so much trouble that I (novice that I am) had to spend more money (at about $100/hour) for a computer expert to come to my home to delete the Registry entries and load the new version. He couldn’t believe this process! I thought it was just because I did something wrong. However, now I don’t feel quite so bad! If I hadn’t had problems years ago with Norton AntiVirus, I would go back to them. Is there any AntiVirus program out there that is easy to install/upgrade and that keeps up to date with their patches? Thanks for letting me vent. Mary Durbin .

• Posted by: Nigel Perels on October 8th, 2003, 6:40 PM

  Read your struggles with McAffee today over at Lockergnome - I fix PC’s for a living & particularly dislike McAffee, although I also find Norton very intrusive. The best (paid) AV I’ve found is NOD32 (www.nod32.com) - friendly, unobtrusive, highly efficient (checks for updates HOURLY!!) & inexpensive. I’ve been using it for over two years now & have never had a moment’s hassle. It also routinely scores at the top end of the league tables too. Simply one of the best by far.

• Posted by: Rick on October 8th, 2003, 6:43 PM

  I read with interest (Lockergnome) your plight with McAfee and I have
  to say that nothing with McAfee in the name even gets close to my
  system. I’ve had problems in the past - not as bad as yours, but a
  pain non the less.

  I’ve had E Trust EZ Antivirus (Computer Associates) on my system for
  two years now and it’s basically a set it and forget it type of
  program. That paired up with the free version of Zone Alarm and Spybot
  Search & Destroy and I’ve never ever had a problem or any virus get to
  my system. The price is very reasonable and signature file updates are
  a breeze and automatic if you wish. If your really PO’d with McAfee,
  I’d certainly recommend giving them a try. I’m sure I don’t spend as
  much time on line as you do, but my system has always kept on humming
  virus and spyware free.
  You don’t hear a lot about EZ Antivirus, but to me it seems like one
  of the better ones out there.
  Just thought I’d let you know about a good alternative and put in my
  two cents worth.
  Have a good one.
  RJT.

• Posted by: Jeff on October 8th, 2003, 6:47 PM

  Oh crap! I ordered Norton AV 2004. It hasn’t come yet. Now I’m really hesitant to install it. Right now I have NAV 2002 and it’s been no problem at all whatsoever! Why is it that some people have no problems and for others it’s a total nightmare??? It can’t be just plain luck!

  Anyway, from what I’ve read about Trend Micro’s PC-cillin, it’s a very good AV software package.
  So hey, should I install NAV 2004 when I receive it or put it on the back shelf?

  I’ve had Panda Platinum and it wasn’t working quite right either. There might have been software conflicts with it but I uninstalled it and bought NAV 2002. Has anyone tried PC-cillin from Trend Micro?

• Posted by: Barb D on October 8th, 2003, 8:04 PM

  Hi,
  Just read your article in the Lockergnome Windows Daily 10-8-03 issue.
  My heart goes out to you. I had same problem with Norton System Works Pro Edition 2003 and McAfee Antivirus. I couldn’t get off my system and I don’t know how to do anything on a computer. I am disabled senior on limited income and Symantec wanted me to call tech support (fee based) to get their crap off my computer. I told them I couldn’t afford to do that.
  The program just would not work right on my system. I ended up having to reformat and reinstall windows. Gateway tech person was kind enough to help me with that. I have problems hearing on phone so I know is hard to follow instructions when you only hear part of what they are saying and is embarrasing to keep saying “pardon me”.
  After my experience with both Symantec and McAfee I said I would never buy another one of their products. Symantec did refund my purchase price which was almost a $100. But the grief I went thru, I was actually physically ill from the stress and worry. I now use Panda antivirus. I’ve had the platinum and now use the titanium because of the ease of use. I love it. They give you updates for your virus definations daily. Also they have free online virus scan that is great. I use it even tho I have the panda titanium installed. Now I wouldn’t use anything but panda. I had some minor problems awhile back and was not working right. I emailed Panda tech support and they wanted me to call, but it was not toll free. I emailed them back and told them I couldn’t afford that as I live on $552. a month and long distance calls are something I just can’t afford. They emailed me back asking for my home phone number and a time that would be good for them to call me. I emailed back the information thinking I’d never hear from them. Right on the time and date I gave them I got a call from Panda tech person and he walked me through what was needed to fix what was not working right. I couldn’t believe it, they actually called me. Sure won’t get that kind of service from Symantec or McAfee. If they cared about their customers they would give better tech support. When you pay that much for a product I think you have a right to expect it. I was told by a tech person that both Symantec and McAfee programs put stuff so deep in the system registry and that it gets attached to your other stuff that it’s almost impossible to get all off your system. Hope you get everything straightened out. Best of luck to you.

  Sincerely
  Barb D

• Posted by: Mike on October 8th, 2003, 8:04 PM

  Meryl,

  Sorry to hear about your problems with Mcafee. I have over 200 machines on our network with PC, Mac’s and Unix that I kept up and running. Over half of my machines are running Mcafee and I have had good luck with their support. I also have the following virus checkers on some of our machines (Norton, Norman, Virus Barrier for Mac’s).

  But the one that I use on my home network system is F-prot.

  You may want to take a look at it.

  Mike

• Posted by: Craig on October 8th, 2003, 8:38 PM

  Meryl,

  I had a terrible experience with Mcafee myself. After a year or two using them as an anti-virus I don’t think I ever figured out how to update.
  I looked around for something better, I heard nothing but bad comments on Norton and even witnessed hiccups on my father’s PC.
  I then found PC-cillin sold by TrendMicro, I LOVE it, it can even be configured so it will tell YOU there is an update and automatically download the new build.

  Mcafee and Norton don’t stand a chance with PC-cillin.

  Craig

• Posted by: Tom on October 8th, 2003, 9:00 PM

  Comments: I had problems similar to yours with NORTON. Can’t call tech
  support without paying, confusing messages, ect. I have just made up my
  mind not to download anymore from these people, and to just go out and buy
  the box product. Good luck ! .

• Posted by: Jim Beddow on October 8th, 2003, 9:09 PM

  I had similar problems with MacAfee Antivirus. I couldn’t uninstall, couldn’t get it to work, couldn’t stop the popups and couldn’t get help. It was worse than having the virus. They’ll have to clean up their act before I use their products again.

• Posted by: Larry Leach on October 8th, 2003, 9:24 PM

  Comments: use the “free” anti virus at:
  http://www.free-av.com/ I got rid of MacAfe
  because it wasn’t as good as this.

  I had items I couldn’t get uninstalled until I
  tried add/remove Pro v. 2.06 at:
  http://superwin.com/.

• Posted by: meryl on October 8th, 2003, 9:36 PM

  Margi comments on this thing and recommends another program.

• Posted by: Lance on October 8th, 2003, 9:44 PM

  I recently purchased a new system with 90-day trial of McAfee online Virus Scan. I also tried SpamKiller, which I ended up despising, and the beta version of the firewall.

  The online virus scan kept displaying a popup telling me to register, which I had done. After 6 or 7 support E-mail responses that offered meaningless remedies, the subscription ran out. I have since installed the boxed version of McAfee v7 with no problems.

  SpamKiller kept showing an update available, and after following the update trail would be brought to a page that said it was up-to-date. Again, E-mail responses for support were of no practical use.

  Fortunately, that subscription has also expired. I wondered whether the support requests were even read, as support would ask what errors are you experiencing, what have you done to solve, etc?, which were clearly stated in every E-mail I sent.

  I had tried the chit-chat version of their support a few months back. I don’t know what is harder to bear, waiting on phone hold, or chat hold.

  This issue had to do with the autoupdate feature. After giving a detailed explanation of what was not happening, I get asked some questions, such as what I had done to correct the problem, version #s, etc. The support person asked me to wait (which I did for a couple minutes). The support person came back and asked me to explain what problems I was experiencing. Talk about your short-term memory loss! I gave up, telling the support person that I was going to the garden and tell it to the flowers, as I thought the support would be more relevant. He thanked me for contacting McAfee support and would I mind filling out a customer satisfaction survey.

  Then I learn that anyone who has purchased the retail version of virus scan v7, within the past 90 days, was entitled to a free upgrade to v8. Cool! I finally find the webpage that asks for id & passwords, that are available by calling a phone # listed on the page. I call, not once or twice, but 17 different occasions on 3 different days. The first 16 times

  I get told via recording that due to extremely high volume, assistance was unavailable, and to try my call later. The 17th time I get put on hold for 20 minutes, and finally get to talk to someone. This person said that after I prove purchase (by faxing my receipt), when the product is ready (supposed to be on 9/29, but delayed ’til ?), I will be sent a link to download.

  On McAfee’s defense, I find that the virus scan and firewalls are very good when they are configured and running properly. I’ve not had any problem with the beta version of the firewall. It has worked efficiently and accurately in response to some stealth-testing. My only comment to improve is I would like to see an option to allow/disallow a program this instance only when asked to make a decision as to net access.

  The bottom line is I have spent and wasted entirely too much time trying to solve McAfee issues, and I’m glad to see I am not the only one who thinks McAfee support is from Mars.

• Posted by: Patrick on October 8th, 2003, 10:01 PM

  Meryl’s “fight” with McAfee’s anti virus sounds uncomfortably similar to
  problems I enjoyed with McAfee’s SpamKiller that I recently downloaded. In
  addition to a web site that drives you to distraction if you are running a
  firewall which requires approval for release of your address, it immediately
  began connecting to the McAfee web site on the order of once every five
  minutes, and placed all of my messages in non Outlook folders. I finally just
  deleted the software, including the registry entries, after which it STILL
  continued to try to connect to McAfee until I found and deleted yet another
  program not included in the uninstall program. If I had not been running a
  firewall I would have never known what was going on.

  That was my last, ever, $35.00 that those folks will get. By the way I am
  using Sunbelt’s “I Hate Spam” software which is effective and behaving quite
  well.

• Posted by: Lance on October 8th, 2003, 10:01 PM

  And as an aside, I find it exasperating for a security services website,
  such as McAfee, to allow 3rd-party cookies on their web pages.
  Specifically, as found by bugnosis, this is a web bug from a McAfee account web
  page:
  http://ad.doubleclic­k.net/activity;src=8­12917;type=nai;cat=s­start;ord=1;num=2987­874
  I think that is right up there along with verisign’s “hijackings”..

• Posted by: James Tepe on October 8th, 2003, 10:11 PM

  I just read your ‘rant’ in today’s issue of Lockergnome about

  McAffee. I had different issue’s with them several years ago and needed
  tech help and “NEVER” got one bit of help that actually helped. At first
  they made feeble attempts but quickly stopped even responding to my cry’s.
  I even got the e-mail address of the president of the company but got no
  response. I dropped them for Norton products which are easier to use and I
  think better. I suggest drop them completely and tell everyone to do the
  same.

• Posted by: Thomas church on October 8th, 2003, 10:26 PM

  ref McAfee A-V install

  I’ve NEVER been impressed with McAfee….
  I had similar issues with Zone Alarm Pro, it just wouldn’t uninstall and formatting the drive finally got rid of it. It’s shelf ware.

  I have used Symantec/Norton for many years, but……
  I tried the new Symantec System Works 2004 on a test system. Be very careful! I ran into
  install problems, it installed way slow. and when I rebooted on an XP system, everything was very slow.
  once I got to a point where I found the error message it referred to a web site for the solution….
  the solution? it said this is a known problem with no solutions and Symantec was investigating. It took me an entire day
  to remove what I could with uninstall and manually removing bits and pieces, shutting off the services,
  to finally get back. I have yet to edit the registry of this virus.

  As in Zone Alarm Pro, this version works acts and invades more like a virus and it’s harder to
  get rid of because it’s not an official virus.

  I use Firetrust’s Mailwasher Pro, Kerio’s Personal firewall and NOD32 A-V and the Symantec system 2001
  version w/ out the auto A-V function on my personal system

  I want to thank my test machine for showing me new software does not mean better software.

• Posted by: Neil on October 8th, 2003, 10:53 PM

  Comments:
  1) Thanks for all your good research for Lockergnome. Lots of useful tid-bits.

  2) PLEASE use an imaging software to back up your install, I use acronis and/or drive image 5.0. That way when stupid people like macafee screw up your system you can re-install the image (takes 15 minutes to back-up and another 20 to re-install).

  3) Try AVG antivirus. I have used it for years. It is free, and has provision to schedule updates (mine are done every day at 1am).

  4) Norton did the same thing to me as macafee did to you. After a clean install fixed everything, I refused to buy another Norton product (too bad they just bought PowerQuest).

• Posted by: Brian Humbrecht on October 8th, 2003, 10:56 PM

  Meryl, I just went though a similar experience with McAfee on SpamKiller 4 for several days. It still doesn’t always recognizing the email header info on the POP3 Server (it sometimes thinks it is ‘blank’) therefore, SpamKiller wants to ‘KILL’ the email with the ‘blank’ header; but, if I retrieve the same ‘Live’ email with Outlook; then all of the header info prints out! I ended up using the Live Chat; but, was cut-off by their TechSupport personnel early three times, and dumped from the queue when it reached #2 each time I tried to connect back with the chat line, after waiting 1-2hrs (I get the feeling that if you try to use the On-line Chat more than once in a day it will automatically cut you off at queue #2, when you finally get there!). Tech Support sent me to Customer Support Center A, who sent me to Customer Support Center B, who sent me to Customer Support Center C; but, told me I really should be talking to Digital River; since, I downloaded SpamKiller 4 from them (since it wasn’t available at that time from McAfee On-Line Shop). Because no one at McAfee seemed to know who was responsible for SpamKiller! I originally attempted to buy Spam-Assassin in Jan; but, told I had to buy SpamKiller 4 & I would received an automatic upgrade to SpamKiller 5, when it came out to incorporate Spam Assassin later in the year; since, I had a year of updates with my purchase (false statement - only get software upgrades within 90 days of purchase!). I went to McAfee webpage, and it didn’t show I had purchased SpamKiller 4; so, wanted to charge me new full price to upgrade to SpamKiller 5! It turns out if you bought SpamKiller via Digital River instead of McAfee On-line shop, that it doesn’t show in the McAfee On-line shop as a prior purchase; so, you aren’t eligible for the upgrade price! (Unless maybe you can find the RIGHT Customer Support Center…read on!) Of course Customer Support Center C sent me back to Tech Support; but, I have never heard back from them, and SpamKiller still appears to randomly (because can not establish a patern! One day it can not ‘read’ Lockergnome newsletter email header, after a week with no problem, and next day fine again!) not wanting to read the POP3 email header info. Even though at McAfee TechSup direction I removed & reinstalled SpamKiller 4 (Ohps! they forgot to tell me to save my accumulated personal assigned filters - GoBack saves the day again!) Even though McAfee Techs ‘accidently’ cut me off three times, they have never emailed me back. The McAfee website, also leaves a lot to be desired! It first thinks that everything is either has to do with Virus Scan or Firewall! It wants me to establish a paid case number for Tech Support, and I have to go via devious couple of webpages to get to the On-line Chat! I hope the above sounds like a confusing mess; because, that is what I think of the current McAfee Tech & Customer Support. Unfortunately for them, they sent me a satisfaction survey to fill out yesterday, I hope they liked all the ‘zero’ ratings in the response!

• Posted by: John Fucci on October 8th, 2003, 10:57 PM

  I’ve just read about your ordeal in trying to upgrade McAfee. I had been a long time user of McAfee VirusScan (starting back before there was a version 1.0 and John McAfee was still working out of his garage). I’ve noticed a steady decline in customer service ever since NAI acquired McAfee, as well as a steady decline in
  my confidence in the product. Plus I was getting tired of having to reboot my PCs just because the .DAT files got updated. Over a year ago I switched over to Panda Anitvirus and have been very happy ever since. The updates to the
  signature files, as well as the engine, happens automatically everyday, without any intervention needed on my part. I’ve already gone through the renewal process with them, and it was quite painless. Check them out at http://www.pandasoftware.com. I think you will be quite pleased.

• Posted by: Kevin G. on October 8th, 2003, 11:06 PM

  Meryl,
  That (McAfee)story sounded worse than trying to get rid of Kazaa (et al). I use CA InnoculateIT, it auto updates as often as I care to set it to (4 hours right now). It catches everything. A bit pricey but compared to the time you just lost, maybe not so expensive after all.
  Also there is no appreciable performance hit, I’ll never use Norton again because of that particular issue.
  I agree with RJT, zone alarm, InnoculateIT, spybot and Reg Cleaner 4.3
  Kevin

• Posted by: K Clark on October 9th, 2003, 3:45 AM

  I receive Lockergnome Bits and Bytes and Windows Daily and have for a long time. Good information. I just want to make a couple comments about your McAfee fiasco. I switched to McAfee a couple years ago because my son recommended the software. I wished a million times I had never done it. I had three of the applications. None of them had expired and McAfee owes me around $140 but they aren’t refunding a penny. I had used each application for 30 days and after the 30 days–no refunds. Their online technical support is inadequate. The kicker was though, I made an email address change, it turned into some kind of mess and no one at McAfee could straighten it out. I now have AVG Anti-Virus. It may not be a big name but they deliver what they sell and it’s easy! I like your articles in the newsletters.

• Posted by: Wanda on October 9th, 2003, 5:49 AM

  I am a older lady, a cancer patient, I use my computer as pain control. I can’t be without it.
  After having similar problems with the McAfee virus scan you did I switched to a free one AVG. It is easy and with the daily scan and updates I feel safe. I like the message with each e-mail that it is virus free. It makes opening my mail less fearsom.

• Posted by: Jeff Partridge on October 9th, 2003, 6:57 AM

  I hope you haven’t done anything irreversible, yet. I don’t even want to wait and read the rest of your tale of woe, since something I just went through could save your life (or at least your sanity).

  I, too, just went through one of the periodic tragedies called ‘Renewal’. My little drama was played out with ZoneLabs. Fortunately for me (and maybe for you), I have a decent memory and I take the time to really get to know my software. I faced a renewal with ZoneAlarm. I installed, it uninstalled the old version, and… it kept telling me my subscription had run out! I was a little crazed, too. Then I remembered something in the program interface that made no sense at all to me when I saw it. It was a little software button that said “Change license”. It made no sense to me why someone would want to change their license info on a product that they’d registered, but I decided to try something- when ZoneLabs acknowledged my purchase of the renewal, they sent me an e-mail with a new license key. I didn’t think anything of it. After all, the program was downloaded directly from ZoneLabs AFTER I purchased the renewal of my original license key, which they had on file. But, I tried it anyway. I clicked on the button and entered the new license key into the downloaded and installed program and POOF, it stopped telling me my subscription had run out!

  Look around and give it a try. You, too, may have skipped a step…

• Posted by: Marc Erickson on October 9th, 2003, 8:15 AM

  Sorry to hear about your McAfee troubles. I’ve found the McAfee Knowledge Base to be almost useless. Symantec’s is quite good - if only they could fix their search engine so I don’t get thousands of hits from a search.

  Computer Rescue Center is my business and it’s a one man show - I’m the only tech. I’ve had numerous customers with AV program installs gone bad - when it’s Norton, I can fix it thanks to the excellent instructions in the KB and the utilities they’ve written to help remove the program. When it’s McAfee, I take a quick look and if I don’t see a solution (usually that’s the case) then I recommend my customer switch to Norton and I install a demo version for them if they desire it.

  Also, my experience with AV progs has been that they don’t like to share a machine - one program per computer please. Even the ones that are supposed to be an upgrade actually uninstall the older version first before starting the new version install. This is kind of like upgrading Windows in place - if it works for you, great, but if it goes wrong, it can be horrible. I always uninstall the old version first in Control Panel and reboot before starting the new version install.

  I hope everything is back to normal and I’m crossing my fingers that it continues to work OK -
  if you’re like me you’ve done enough formats and reinstalls that you’d rather not do another one if you can avoid it.

  Best,
  Marc

  Computer Rescue Center
  1205 - 17319 69 Avenue
  Edmonton, AB T5T 3S7
  compurescue@shaw.ca
  780 486-1843

• Posted by: Mark on October 9th, 2003, 8:46 AM

  I work in a call center supporting Dell PCs, and the problems you had with McAfee are VERY common. The Dell PCs ship with a 90-day McAfee trial, and it prompts the users to update their AV definitions online. That update breaks McAfee, and the uninstall is torture. Of course the McAfee folks tell the customer to call Dell for support since we pre-installed it for them, absolving themselves of the responsibility for the crappy updates and (lack of) support that they could offer. After just a couple of weeks on the phones I decided that instead of trying to get the McAfee workiing again, I will simply help them uninstall it and load Norton from a CD that comes with their PC. I haven’t had a complaint about that since most people have had the same experience with McAfee suport that you have.

  Check out PAnda AV - I have been using it for about 6 months and have NEVER had a problem after I got the auto-update working. Easy install, silent auto-updates, and a service department that knows what the program does, how it does it, and how to correct any problem the FIRST time!

• Posted by: Walter on October 9th, 2003, 9:12 AM

  Meryl, this is a response to your terrible experience with McAfee. I advise my clients to use Norton, but I, too, have run into a similar challenge with one of my client’s installation; in resolving it, to make a clean, new upgrade installation, it was necessary to use the paid (29.95/incident) phone support. And the procedure necessary to clean out the previous Norton installation included doing a search of all the ‘hidden’ files and folders on the hard drive, related to Symantec. After these were deleted, I had to run a special download “Norton Removal Tool,” available on their web site; from what I understood from the Norton tech, this removal tool finds Registry keys and codes which are ‘invisible’ to manual deletion, due to the esoteric naming or encryption. Finally, we deleted the Symantec folders in the Registry. Perhaps McAfee offers a similar ‘Removal Tool’. I concur with the other “Notes” respondents, who deplore the avarice and carelessness of these mainstream antivirus developers. I, too, am looking for an alternative. Good luck!! Believe me, I empathize, sympathize, with your frustration!!

• Posted by: Dan Gill on October 9th, 2003, 9:31 AM

  Read about your “issues” with McAffee in Lockergnome Newsletter and am sympathetic.

  I, too, HAD issues with their product/service and solved it quite simply.

  I have been running Panda Titanium Antivirus (at home)for over 2 years now, and am totally pleased. It updates daily without user input and I have not been touched by any virus, worm or trojan since I installed it.

  We (Landmark Engineering) also use Panda Software (Platinum Version) on our servers. Daily updates, etc. No problems.

  Yearly subscription updates have been painless and reasonable.

  Thought you’d like to know.

  Best,

  Dan Gill

• Posted by: Sticks on October 9th, 2003, 9:32 AM

  Meryl,
  I feel your pain! However, I’m ashamed to say that up until a few months ago I profited from people who chose to use Norton or McAfee as anti-virus software on their PC’s. I use to own a small computer repair shop, more than 50% of the repairs I did were successfully executed by completely removing Norton and McAfee and then installing the free version of AVG.
  The biggest boondoggle was when the user was not aware that McAfee had been installed by the manufacturer (usually done by the big guys like Compaq and Dell & Gateway) and then the customer installed Norton on top.
  The good news… I’ve never had to re-format, re-install, or re-anything to get the computer back to working condition.

• Posted by: S. Davenport on October 9th, 2003, 9:46 AM

  Excellent summary of the McAfee problem by Meryl-and without expletives! I can relate to Meryl’s problem. I had a similar problem with McAfee’s Firewall. I tried the online chat, but most of the so-called techies didn’t know how to fix the problem. I finally used their emailed instructions to edit the registry, and I’m sure that I deleted something valuable. No one should have to manually uninstall a program and then edit the registry. That’s why I went back to Norton. However, the reason I left Norton was that they had a bug in System works 2000 that they didn’t admit to, and it dumped over 2,000 files on my hard drive. It crashed my hard drive and I spent hours on the phone with Microsoft and Dell getting it reformatted. Why can’t companies make sure the product works BEFORE they release. it.

• Posted by: Phil on October 9th, 2003, 9:49 AM

  So you didn’t like McAfee’s Spam Remover. It seem to me that they have there own spam or scam. Every time I try to download McAfee VirusScan online for updates, I get an advertisment to buy one of their other products, but no updates for VirusScan.

• Posted by: Patrice on October 9th, 2003, 10:01 AM

  As a avid and regular reader of all Lockergnome newsletter your lead piece in the last Windows Daily “Reckless Registry” really tugged at my digital heart strings. I too have had my ups and downs with McAfee; the later getting the best of me prompted my switching to the leading competition, Symantec believing that their after sales service and tech support couldn’t be as mediocre as McAfees. A very recent experience with Symantec leaves in serious doubt as to their abilities also. I purchased an online upgrade of their new Norton Internet Security 2004 Professional edition from their European (UK) store because their US store doesn’t permit downloads to european countries as their error message informed me.

  Instead of receiving the Professional edition I had bought I received the standard edition. The difference being the Professional edition of Norton AntiVirus and the Productivity program in the professional edition while the standard edition offers the Parental Control program. Having absolutely no use for parental control, I emailed their customer support to attempt to rectify the erroneous download. They sent a reply stating that the download error affected several customers and directing me to re-download the product using the coupon code provided in their email.

  When this go wrong they have a tendency to continue that way until some applied force changes the trajectory.

  The coupon code they provided did work on the US site but I received the original error message: “We are sorry but one or more of the products you have selected are not authorized in your country.” So I tried the coupon code on the UK site where I originally purchased the product. You guessed it! The coupon code didn’t work! After twelve lengthy emails and two telephone calls I finally received a refund email with instructions to swear by all things holy to me to destruct the downloaded product and to try again. I’m now waiting for verification of my refund. All this to warn you to carefully choose whomever you may wish to switch to.

  A small tip also in dealing with your registry issues after uninstalling McAfee or Norton AntiVirus as both seem to want to haunt one’s registry forever. Having had to uninstall and reinstall McAfee and/or Norton at least ten to fifteen times, particularly on my Windows 98 machines, I’ve successfully used a registry tool that I discovered in your Lockergnome newsletters, jv16 Power Tools. The latest version, unfortunately no longer free, has a registry finder tool that does a great job in searching all instances of McAfee and derivative names as well as Symantec/Norton/LiveUpdate/LiveReg etc…and provides ample info as to the keys’ location, content, to allow careful and selective removal.

  In closing best of luck with your antivirus adventures, don’t give up hope, and do continue to write your very useful tips in the Lockergnome newletters.

• Posted by: Chuck Smith on October 9th, 2003, 10:07 AM

  I too have had my fair share of experiences as such. Worst ones are also with the mcrappee software line.

  Additionally, chat is such an informal support tool. Chat tools for support usually mean that the support crew is out of another country - so in other words, you would not understand them in a phone conversation!!

  I chose AVAST (a free av tool) for my av protection and it has been a pretty good experience. Plus, since its free I can’t complain.

  Good luck with your experiences..

  Chuck S.

• Posted by: Ron on October 9th, 2003, 10:27 AM

  To Meryl:

  Just a quick reply to the article on 10/08. I am probably just slightly better than a novice when it comes to anti-virus software, probably without your experience and knowledge, and certainly without a “Paul” to back me up. After a couple of similar experiences with both McAfee and Symantec each pre-installed on different new computers, I have switched to V-Comm (formerly Ontrack) System Suite. It utilizes Trend Micro anti-virus along with a host of other goodies; Registry fixer and cleaner, automatic virus signature updates, and “Power Desk” as a bonus if your buy the suite. Have had absolutely no problems with install, update, upgrade, anything. Give it a try. I think you’ll be happy, especially after your McAfee experience.

• Posted by: Sam Foster on October 9th, 2003, 1:54 PM

  After many visits to clients. I have determined the following…

  1. The Norton and Macafee products are a pain to setup and remove.

  2. Even if they are setup correctly, the client ignores popups and information required to continue safe operation. (they ignore the renewal)

  3. They need something simple and cheap, they don’t understand, that I can’t drop by every week/month to do all their updates. I invoice by the hour, but I do expect them to do something to protect themselves.

  4. I recommend and personally use AVG by http://www.grisoft.com, the free one works just as well as anything else, and the only 2 things I have to change after setup is the update frequency from 14 days to every 2 days, and ensuring that the time for the update and AV search is not a time that the computer would be off. Simple.

  Sam Foster
  http://www.anythingetal.com

• Posted by: Thomas Elias Weatherly on October 9th, 2003, 2:57 PM

  I do not use Norton now and I do not recommend it; although it is good, I do not recommend it because it stresses the OS too much. Norton has a huge ramprint; it is reported to conflict with other utilities. I have changed my mind about suites. ZoneAlarm Internet Security Suite is so damn good that I was converted. It combines the good antivirus from Computer Associates with the top firewall ZoneAlarm, adds to this the fine spamfilter from MailFrontier, parental control, privacy control, IM protection, and email protection inbound and outbound. No, I do not work for Zonelabs; ZAISS works for me. TDS-3 has been retired by DiamondCS, so I am looking for another antiTrojan. I suggest that you have a couple of antirootkit programs. I am trying several: RootkitRevealer, F-Secure Blacklight Beta, Rootkit Hook Analyzer, Rootkit Detector, and IceSword.

• Posted by: Nick Moscato on October 9th, 2003, 3:07 PM

  Hi Meryl~

  I just read your battle with McAfee’s VirusScan (posted at LockerGnome) and wanted to write and let you know that I feel your pain.
  I’ll just say that I will NEVER use McAfee products again. There are SO many alternatives that actually upgrade/uninstall properly (Avast! for one) that McAfee just isn’t worth the trouble.

• Posted by: Mike on October 9th, 2003, 3:35 PM

  Scrap McAfee. My suggestion, and preferred virus
  protection, Trend Micro’s PCCillin. I have never had a problem with it.

  I’ve experienced the same kind of problems you are having with McAfee. I’ve also had bad experiences with Norton’s.

  Best of luck getting the problem solved. Last time I messed with a problem related to McAfee I gave up and wiped the drive clean.

  With PCCillin if you want to uninstall it, just go to ADD/Remove and remove it. Updates are automatic and often. I’ve never had a problem with upgrades either.

  Thanks,

  Mike

• Posted by: Scott on October 9th, 2003, 6:47 PM

  You have run into the McAfee Wall! I to have jumped trough hoops

  to get McAfee programs to run properly; I have subscribed to then for 4
  years and when they updated there system a couple of months ago the
  “Clinic” which I subscribed to began acting up. After umpteen E-Mails and
  them trying to tell me how to fix it, They finally came clean and said
  they did not support the program. I had about 5 more months left with the
  subscription, but have never heard back on my replies as to what they
  would do. Well I Know What I will do… Bye Bye McAfee!!!

• Posted by: Evanf on October 10th, 2003, 11:08 AM

  After reading the article by Meryl Evans about his issues with MacAfee, I had to relate my story…
  Many years ago I installed Norton AV on all my company computers. Recently my department was given money to upgrade the systems. Wanting full virus coverage and having been happy with Norton in the past, I bought copies of NAV 2003 for all our computers. I installed on 6 computers before the problem started rearing it’s head.
  Initial installs on 6 computers went just fine. I allowed the program to remove the old version then install it’s self. So far sounds like Meryls story, no? it gets more so in some ways, read on… The install went fine and the systems ran great for about a week when one of them started to lockup in a black screen during startup. I deleted all the temp files, cleared caches and ran a scandisk. The system was back up and running for another week until the same thing happened. If I did a step-by-step startup and bypassed all four of the Symantec NAV entries the system would startup and run just fine. Any time the system loaded on it’s own it would lock up and this time clearing temp files and scandisking made no improvements. Checking the support knowledge base, it suggested it could be one of two things, first possibility - conflict with a previous version of NAV. Second possibility - timing conflict at startup. Trying the installation problem was my first choice. Now I would think that when an older program is removed so a newer version can be installed that the programmers can cover all those bases and have the install program remove all it is supposed to remove. Apparently not. They do however have a nifty removal utility that removes all registry entries for previous versions. So, using this removal utility and the Windows removal program, I removed all traces of NAV off my now ‘clean’ system. I then went in, checked the registry, so much for their removal tool, I removed over 40 entries that were still there as well as about 3 folders through explorer. I reinstalled NAV2003 and again it ran great… for about three weeks. The user was in an old DOS application the company still uses and his computer crashed. Upon restart he locked up in a black screen. The only way he could get out of it was to do a step by step and bypass all Symantec NAV entries… back to square one and the knowledge base. Ok, we will try the timing issue. I used msconfig and disabled all the things they suggested to disable and still the program wont work. I sent an e-mail to tech support and after about a week they responded that it was a timing issue and to try doing the things I had already done. After (again) doing what they suggested I e-mailed them with info that what they suggested did not work and a question of how a computer that has been running well for some time with no programs installed since their program could “develop” a timing problem. Their response was to ask for the NAV install log. It does not/has not existed on the system so I can’t send it to them (this time) so after (AGAIN) removing all traces of their program and reinstalling I will at least be able to develop an install log to help them with their issue… I want to call tech support but at about $30/call I think not, I think maybe I might take that money and buy some other program. I had thought MacAfee but now I am unsure. This has now dragged on for about a month and is still not resolved… And now, I have another one of the machines doing the exact same thing. This one did have a log however which I since sent to Symantec. I have gone backwards and installed NAV 2001 on both computers until they can figure this one out… so much for the money spent on the rest of the as yet uninstalled programs…
  I wish Symantec had online live support…

• Posted by: Daniel on October 10th, 2003, 7:55 PM

  I strongly recommend Panda Antivirus - either the Titanium or the Platinum. Both are a great value and I have high confidence in Panda’s ability to protect my system. I am not associated with the company, hold stock etc. I am just simply a user that has gone from McAfee, Norton’s Antivirus, and now to Panda. It is easy to use and offers some nice online tools also.

• Posted by: paul morris on October 11th, 2003, 7:59 AM

  I would like to add (as I told Meryl in my email), that a few years ago I had similar problems with mcafee and since then similar problems with norton (getting rid of norton personal firewall took three hours of manual registry seek and delete AFTER uninstalling). With mcafee and norton both, the emphasis seems to be on bloated software, that is nothing but aggravation to upgrade or uninstall. I also have found, that installation options are more limited than I would like - this applies to a lot of modern software. As a power user I like to minimize installs -especially if I already have apps that perform the same functions as some of the sub-apps in these overblown product suites, to my satisfaction. I personally love System Suite 5 by VCOM (formerly by On Track) - and I find the modules to be extremely useful, efficient, and the upgrades easy and quick. I have recommended this product to all and sundry, as I have extensively tested it and its predecessor version 4 for over two years with no problems.

• Posted by: Rahul on October 11th, 2003, 4:38 PM

  I Wanted to Decide between Norton AntiVirus 2003 Proffesional and McAfee 7.0 Professional.
  Then i read this Forum and i made up my mind , because people seemed to like norton better than McAfee, i Choose Norton Antivirus.
  And I Havent had have a problem since then.
  So i Guess That makes Norton Better Than McAfee.
  As for norton systemworks , I wouldnt recommend it to anybody because it messes up your computer and slows it down.
  It did more loss than improving my computer`s performance
  The only benifit of Norton SystemWorks is that the Disk Defragmanter is better than the one in Windows , Me,98,95. And i dont think that someone will be willing to spend so much for a Disk Defragmenter.
  NORTON IS THE BEST ANTIVIRUS AROUND BUT BEWARE OF USING NORTON SYSTEMWORKS

• Posted by: Rod on October 11th, 2003, 6:46 PM

  Anybody who’s fed up with anti-virus software like McAfee, Norton, etc., should try a smart new program named Avast! from the Czech Republic. There’s an English version. It has a number of great features, like an email filter that checks mail before it leaves the server and VRDB (VRDB? Check it out!). Best of all, it’s FREE for home users (and not spyware like some of those you pay for): http://www.avast.cz

• Posted by: John O. on October 11th, 2003, 11:00 PM

  OK, McAfee and Symantec is/are crap. I knew that years ago, don’t all Lockergnomies know yet?

  (Have you ever seen the McAfee Help Desk program for corporate? Pure shit. I think McAfee himself, long gone from the company, actually told them to take his name off it, so they renamed it “Magic Help Desk” or something.)

  Why don’t you or some Lockergnomie create some registry patch files which will remove all traces of Symantec or McAfee or hell, both in one file. To use: delete Symantec and/or McAfee directories, then double-click the patch .REG file, presto, it’s or they’re gone.

  Symantec somewhere on their website has a page of detailed step-by-step registry editing steps to remove every junk Symantec entry that SystemWorks puts in. I’ve done this a few times and I will never install anything Symantec again. Symantec creates several “illegal” registry entries, ya know, which can jam some simple free registry tools and/or are ignored by better ones, but Easy Desk Software tools find them.

  Someone above notes that McAfee sent him five pages of similar instructions to get McAfee out of his registry. Someone Could put the two into one .REG file to delete all the crap from both companies at once automatically.

  I use AVG Free Personal Anti-Virus too and it works and updates perfectly. AVG is a treasure. I set it up to update automatically EVERY DAY, and I have found using the manula update that sometimes the company has updates twice or more in one day.

  Disk Defragment: Diskeeper has a free LITE version, which must be started manually, it works well enough. It does not “defragment” free space into one continuous space, and as it turns out, that is not really needed.

  I like VCOM’s SystemSuite also but I use AVG instead of the antivirus that VCOM bundles.

  I’m sorry to see that Symantec is going to ruin the PowerQuest line, but PQ was aproaching the same registry and system mucking level as Symantec anyway.

• Posted by: J. Mirsky on October 12th, 2003, 1:05 PM

  I gave up on McAfee three years ago when I tried to renew.

  I spent a half day’s worth of valuable time trying to do a “simple”
  renewal which turned out to be an exercise in futility. I just blew
  it off and told everyone I know about my McAfee experience. I finally
  called their corporate office and gave them a “what for”..

• Posted by: Deborah O. on October 23rd, 2003, 6:44 PM

  Hi, I have not had such problems as you describe with updating and upgrading Norton anti-virus. Everything is smooth sailing. I’m glad I found out about the McAfee problems.

• Posted by: Greg on November 4th, 2003, 9:27 AM

  Hello Meryl,
  So here it is, November 4, and I’ve been using Grisoft’s AVG free version with no problems.
  I’ve tried everything I can find information on, to remove Norton Anti-Virus/Internet Security on my system, and my Add/Remove Programs window now stands with two Norton Anti-Spam, one Norton Anti-Virus, and EIGHT Norton Internet Security program entries I can’t seem to get rid of.
  I had originally installed the 2004 Norton Internet Security software on my home system, to upgrade from the 2003 version, and everything ran and continues to run flawlessly, on WinXP.
  The trouble was/is with my work computer which I had decided to upgrade also. My entry on October 8 reflects my initial experience, and Norton has never helped me with the problem. I’ve received two e-mail replies from them, both stating for me to use their uninstall program available at their website, which may remove some stuff, but I have Norton crap all over this system now.
  My boss does not pay me to spend company time trying to fix problems on my computer caused by flawed software. I have real work to do, not fool with this stupid arcane junk.
  So, for the meantime, I leave the system as it is, because it’s working with Grisoft’s AVG (thanks to people like that!).
  I suppose when the boss isn’t around and I have time, I’ll gather up all my program installation cd’s for the work I do here, back up all my data, and re-format the hard drive and start fresh.
  It’s getting where almost every program I see coming out these days is a fat bloated resource hog. Amazing.
  Love your work Meryl, keep it up!

  Greg

• Posted by: Mary on November 24th, 2003, 10:31 AM

  I recently needed to upgrade my Norton virus signatures and made the same mistake of many of you - I upgraded to Norton AntiVirus 2004. I’ve been working in the computer field for over 15 years so I am pretty good at troubleshooting problems, but this program has me stumped. I contacted Symantec support and received a response with detailed instructions. Now instead of just closing after it starts, I get an error message telling me that Norton has caused an internal error.

  I’m still waiting for a response from Symantec. So much for their 24-48 hr response. Trying to find any troubleshooting information on their website is time-consuming. I have spent five or six hours trying to troubleshoot this on my own. If they don’t respond soon I’m going to just request a refund.

  I’ve heard that Computer Associates is giving away their antivirus FREE to home users. Check out techbargains.com for info.

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